By DY_nasty Go To PostYou really can't do both. It's hard enough keeping regulations up to date, relevant, and in place at the federal and at the same time enforce those standards with the necessary discretion below.
It's also unfair to level all of these complaints on ICE. They aren't the only agency or organization holding people indefinitely and the powers that allow them to do so exist in many forms elsewhere as well. Even Chicago PD was working blacksites - and on actual citizens.
The problem with border patrol and immigration response for many is the fact that you're forced to be the first point of contact with peoples with literally nothing to their names but word of mouth and whatever materials you find on them at the time. You can imagine how much more complicated things become as you try to arrange holding, immediate healthcare, security, and arrangements stateside/abroad. You don't just scrape entire entities off the board, wipe your hands,
Also, this is not a police state. It's an overbloated, disorganized mess that also happens to be heartily weaponized both literally and figuratively.
ICE operates under the DHS thus treats people such as asylum seekers similar to that as a potential terrorist, it's operating under an assumption that anyone entering this country is somehow a national security risk. The separations of families might be an order from the top but the way it's been handled is sickening; they've can't keep track of family members, babies are kept unbathed, women who've miscarried are left untreated, etc. The human rights violations continue. Abolishing ICE is the only way to go forward, from there another agency could take up duties of ICE.
And we might not live in a total police state but look at the amount of power police are given in this country and how they are used. They're treated as a first responders to mentally ill people where often times they treat them as criminals or outright kill them (There's a few videos of them just lining up and executing people death squad style), police departments buy up military grade weapons and vehicles, they either outright target POC/working class people or are used from richer wypipo to do so. Not to mention the complete lack of accountability police face.
By HasphatsAnts Go To Post
This is what I find perplexing. If you want to campaign as a New Deal Democrat, that's fine. I'm all for it in fact, but please stop calling yourself socialist?
to try and put simply what I could spend 1000 words saying
democratic socialist is the term that best unites a bunch of different elements on the left that are currently united around some short term policy goals but have real disagreements or aren't really sure of long term political aims (basically social democracy vs socialism socialism)
We got Ben Jealous about to turn Maryland blue again and then from there on out we gonna be on our BYAHHHH! shit.
Honestly I'm really interested in the black market economy insofar as how undocumented people (aka "illegal" immigrants) are able to survive and get by and maybe even thrive.
I think all you need to get a bank account is some money right? They don't care about IDs?
Maybe immigrants can just start their own banking associations up.
That would be awesome.
It would fuck with Republicans AND Wall Street like two birds with one stone.
I really love my ideas sometimes.
Honestly I'm really interested in the black market economy insofar as how undocumented people (aka "illegal" immigrants) are able to survive and get by and maybe even thrive.
I think all you need to get a bank account is some money right? They don't care about IDs?
Maybe immigrants can just start their own banking associations up.
That would be awesome.
It would fuck with Republicans AND Wall Street like two birds with one stone.
I really love my ideas sometimes.
By FermentedFungi Go To PostICE operates under the DHS thus treats people such as asylum seekers similar to that as a potential terrorist, it's operating under an assumption that anyone entering this country is somehow a national security risk. The separations of families might be an order from the top but the way it's been handled is sickening; they've can't keep track of family members, babies are kept unbathed, women who've miscarried are left untreated, etc. The human rights violations continue. Abolishing ICE is the only way to go forward, from there another agency could take up duties of ICE.The nature of security is the same across the board though. You assess risk. The magnitude of the illegal immigration flow though? That's not getting solved by switching out parts. It was bad enough when people wanted to throw money at everything but to boil down an institution as evil disregards all of the circumstances and factors at play.
And we might not live in a total police state but look at the amount of power police are given in this country and how they are used. They're treated as a first responders to mentally ill people where often times they treat them as criminals or outright kill them (There's a few videos of them just lining up and executing people death squad style), police departments buy up military grade weapons and vehicles, they either outright target POC/working class people or are used from richer wypipo to do so. Not to mention the complete lack of accountability police face.
Like I brought up before, there are designated entry points with proper facilities. There are more organized and secure, regulated passageways. There is an existing process in place that's not only functional, but receiving normal funds. In all of the border patrol and ICE talk, that's completely disregarded.
Also, this is has never been a matter of potential terrorists and refugees from cartel violence. It's plainly illegal immigration and all that falls under the umbrella. If someone is unwilling to use the widely known, easy to identify checkpoints - you need to understand why, who they are, who they're traveling with, etc. That's fair, right? Labeling every Hispanic immigrant as a charity case is the same as believing every African is starving and needs a quarter a day to live. This kind of situation requires more attentiveness than wiping a slate clean. The heavy handedness and dropped standards isn't a cause, it's a symptom.
Also, people make it sound like Canada won't detain and throw an illegal immigrant out for disregarding generally open border policies lol
By Smoke Dogg Go To PostWe got Ben Jealous about to turn Maryland blue again and then from there on out we gonna be on our BYAHHHH! shit.Wow.
Honestly I'm really interested in the black market economy insofar as how undocumented people (aka "illegal" immigrants) are able to survive and get by and maybe even thrive.
I think all you need to get a bank account is some money right? They don't care about IDs?
Maybe immigrants can just start their own banking associations up.
That would be awesome.
It would fuck with Republicans AND Wall Street like two birds with one stone.
I really love my ideas sometimes.
By Laboured Go To PostUnfuckingbelievable.#FakeCameraNews
It’s literally recorded on camera.
you mean russian intelligence, in other words, putin, knew all about the hacking of the dnc? no way!!!!
This is is so big yet I'm so sure everyone is going to treat it as insignificant because it's what we'd all assumed in the first place. If it's not new it's not important.
Trump knew about this earlier this week and still said good things about Putin. Fuck off you obvious orange piece of shit
Russian may be broke, but they seem like they've done a pretty good job at aiding in the destabilization of western relationships pretty well.
Damn, yo, Louie Gohmert went hard at Peter Strzok at his hearing.
Show me the Democrat who can do it like Gohmert.
Show me the Democrat who can do it like Gohmert.
By Fenderputty Go To PostWhat if the congressman is Nunes :OMass chaos would ensue.
By n8 dogg Go To PostAre you defending Gohmert’s behaviour? It was fucking appalling.You're right, but I found Bob Goodlatte's behaviour even more appalling.
Jerrold Nadler of NY actually did a good job of defending Strzok against that dickbag Goodlatte of Virginia, as well.
Nadler is a good and smart Democrat and I am glad to have him.
By Laboured Go To Post
wow
By DY_nasty Go To PostThe nature of security is the same across the board though. You assess risk. The magnitude of the illegal immigration flow though? That's not getting solved by switching out parts. It was bad enough when people wanted to throw money at everything but to boil down an institution as evil disregards all of the circumstances and factors at play.These are Central American people fleeing their countries do to gang violence and outright chaos in their homes, they walk up to the border patrol to turn themselves in and ask for asylum. The reports of mistreatment are well reported. The problem with American politics is that one something is created it's somehow deemed too important to continue without, again it's only 17 years old and has shown to be a deparment that continuously violates human rights and uses illegal tactics to detain people.
Like I brought up before, there are designated entry points with proper facilities. There are more organized and secure, regulated passageways. There is an existing process in place that's not only functional, but receiving normal funds. In all of the border patrol and ICE talk, that's completely disregarded.
Also, this is has never been a matter of potential terrorists and refugees from cartel violence. It's plainly illegal immigration and all that falls under the umbrella. If someone is unwilling to use the widely known, easy to identify checkpoints - you need to understand why, who they are, who they're traveling with, etc. That's fair, right? Labeling every Hispanic immigrant as a charity case is the same as believing every African is starving and needs a quarter a day to live. This kind of situation requires more attentiveness than wiping a slate clean. The heavy handedness and dropped standards isn't a cause, it's a symptom.
Also, people make it sound like Canada won't detain and throw an illegal immigrant out for disregarding generally open border policies lol
It's a trash agency.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostLet's cut to the chase who or what would replace it?More stringent compliance checking of immigration rules so that there are less talking points for shitbags like Rupert Murdoch's henchmen.
Why we don't just deport Murdoch back to Australia/Britain is beyond me.
But who will it be enforced by? Agencies with even less training? Local law enforcement? Because we know how trigger happy cops are, you want them working the border or with immigrants now too?
By Random Ass Username Go To PostLet's cut to the chase who or what would replace it?
We didn’t have ICE 15+ years ago. How did the INS handle deportations? Serious question.
Ok, I shall give you an example.
The biggest complaint I hear is that illegal immigrants siphon off all the social welfare funds.
Ok, well, if that were the case...
Shouldn't the local agencies entrusted to control those funds be held accountable for not verifying the documentation of the recipients of such funds?
If, however, the case is that those funds are not meant to be discriminatory, that those funds exist to help any and all in need, regardless of status of legal domicile, then someone needs to just come out and say that bitching about illegal immigrants is all a moot point and that Republicans are just bitchy pieces of shit and will always find a way to be bitchy pieces of shit all because they can't have their confederate flag anymore.
The biggest complaint I hear is that illegal immigrants siphon off all the social welfare funds.
Ok, well, if that were the case...
Shouldn't the local agencies entrusted to control those funds be held accountable for not verifying the documentation of the recipients of such funds?
If, however, the case is that those funds are not meant to be discriminatory, that those funds exist to help any and all in need, regardless of status of legal domicile, then someone needs to just come out and say that bitching about illegal immigrants is all a moot point and that Republicans are just bitchy pieces of shit and will always find a way to be bitchy pieces of shit all because they can't have their confederate flag anymore.
By Laboured Go To Postneogafplanememe.jpgLate capitalismHellworld is doing A-ok.
By FermentedFungi Go To PostThese are Central American people fleeing their countries do to gang violence and outright chaos in their homes, they walk up to the border patrol to turn themselves in and ask for asylum. The reports of mistreatment are well reported. The problem with American politics is that one something is created it's somehow deemed too important to continue without, again it's only 17 years old and has shown to be a deparment that continuously violates human rights and uses illegal tactics to detain people.
It's a trash agency.
@bolded -There is a thing called economic immigration. I'm not sure how Europe as a whole can bluntly call it for what it is while Americans have to paint things in the broadest of strokes ie terrorists/refugees in rags. If you want to walk on in, then why not hit a real entry point? There are various reasons and all of them require vetting/security/quesswork inprocessing and in the most dramatic cases immediate disorganized healthcare, detainment, contacting family within the US, etc. There's too many moving parts to ask for sledgehammer responses for things that plague several federal agencies and more state and local groups - and after the sanctuary city nonsense, its apparently clear that communication between all of those entities is an open tragedy.
Also, everything south of the border is not a warzone. Mexico is not Sicario on repeat. All of south and central america is not City of God. Economic immigration is real, and not even a scary thing to talk about. I have no idea why its plainly missing from American
Saying that the whole of immigration is wartorn people with nowhere to go and nothing to their names is like saying that every black person in the south has been shot at by cops. SOME people have. MANY are aware of those problems. EVERYONE wants better solutions from bonds and whatnot being overhauled, to better police training/community awareness, body cams, oversight, etc. They don't say "abolish cops".
Mistreatment is not at all outside of the scope of my argument either. Its obvious, but stuff like 'Trump is creating a Zombie Army!' is hyperbole that does no one any favors. Holocaust comparisons, etc. Just absurd... However, stating that removal of an agency that's stretched widely beyond its limits and hoping that the quick solution is an easy handwave away only makes it worse. This approach has already enabled the military explicit control and powers to act even more freely than they already do regarding the border. That's been signed off on as a real solution as well. Its legitimately awful too but people seem to not have their fill. Why continue to beat on that drum?
Hell, if people want to tackle indefinite holdings of illegal immigrants they could also tackle the indefinite holdings of actual citizens too.
But that's not the case lol.
i mean a lot of what ice does is collaboration with state entities sooooooooooooooo lets empower federal *more* to get around that whole thing
what could go wrong
what could go wrong
Let's just go back to indefinite detainments for everyone on bases.
And let's be clear I don't have a horse in the race of whether to keep ICE or not, but those that want to see it gone, I'd like to know what they plan in its absence. You can't just dismantle entire agencies and then cry when they become even more privatized. The detention centers now unfortunately quite a few are privatized, you want the agency that is going to process these people go that route as well? That's what will happen and they'll have even less transparency and will be beyond the purview of a lot of regulations and rules.
And let's be clear I don't have a horse in the race of whether to keep ICE or not, but those that want to see it gone, I'd like to know what they plan in its absence. You can't just dismantle entire agencies and then cry when they become even more privatized. The detention centers now unfortunately quite a few are privatized, you want the agency that is going to process these people go that route as well? That's what will happen and they'll have even less transparency and will be beyond the purview of a lot of regulations and rules.