By Random Ass Username Go To PostWe gonna act like it was just Reagan and the GOP fronting the "welfare queen" shit myth too? And still do to some extent?All the democrats I speak to, especially the young one's want to help BLM and repair the damage done.
I'm sorry Clinton 3rd way democrats have soured all of your views but they aren't the party anymore.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostRahm Emmanuel.No one likes him.
And Yes DY, the women who openly called half the country deplorable I would say is anti racist.
Jesus Christ do you listen to yourself?
Also democrats really strove to deal with cops and the continued extra judicial killing and maiming of black citizens that's for sure.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostAlso democrats really strove to deal with cops and the continued extra judicial killing and maiming of black citizens that's for sure.There is no easy way to navigate that one.
Attack cops and now you lose all the moderates and independents. How can the dems (who are constantly derided for having bad optics) possibly navigate that without losing majority every time?
I mean if you guys want them going full YOLO and lighting the house on fire enjoy never having a majority until white people are less than 50% of the electorate.
Dems get all the excuses in the world for their complacency but Trump voters are clearly the only moral failure. Okay.
By FlutterPuffs Go To PostReading about Hillary and Bill's actions during his presidency.reading is for cowards
….wew
By DY_nasty Go To Postreading is for cowardsI understand part of it was due to Russian meddling, but it's probably also a major factor why a lot of black people didnt vote for her during the last election.
By DY_nasty Go To Postfender, if you're gonna call gondo an idiot over renegade democrats of all things then why the fuck waste time playing nice with this dude? lol
To be clear ... I've never not played nice until someone insults me (or at least I try). Gondo did just that.
By DY_nasty Go To PostHillary is your champion of anti-racism?
Fender. I don't even have to try.
"Champion" is too much. Though the Bernie die hards downplay her recent efforts and bring up the 90's to do so. Which is all sorts of silly itself.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostDems get all the excuses in the world for their complacency but Trump voters are clearly the only moral failure. Okay.
This is a more fair assessment of the current state of the party than just shitting on Dems in general. They're a reflection of the populace that voted them in. You'll note this is why 99% of dems were for tough on crime bills in the 90's they're no longer for today.
Those who vote dem that aren't a minority group are quick to dismiss minority group issues. $15 an hour is more important than police brutality. Which was essentially Bernie's entire platrform for 2016. Pay attentions to the racist rust belt dems
By Random Ass Username Go To PostDems get all the excuses in the world for their complacency but Trump voters are clearly the only moral failure. Okay.What complacency?
We're pushing them forward ever more progressive. GOP is going BACKWARDS.
Like what the fuck. This is why I mock you with both sides.
By Fenderputty Go To PostTo be clear … I've never not played nice until someone insults me (or at least I try). Gondo did just that.
I also remain kind until you insult me.
By TheHunter Go To PostWhat complacency?Ever more progressive? Like right after Trump when they were lecturing people on "50 states" and patronizing women about "well the party line is still pro-choice"? Yeah okay. Doneso here.
We're pushing them forward ever more progressive. GOP is going BACKWARDS.
Like what the fuck. This is why I mock you with both sides.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostEver more progressive? Like right after Trump when they were lecturing people on "50 states" and patronizing women about "well the party line is still pro-choice"? Yeah okay. Doneso here.
Because if you want majorities you need some centrists. Dems weren't saying lets all be pro-life now.
Like C'mon guys at least pretend to understand how politics work.
Alternatively, how's that socialist lefty in Montana working out for you?
By Random Ass Username Go To PostEver more progressive? Like right after Trump when they were lecturing people on "50 states" and patronizing women about "well the party line is still pro-choice"? Yeah okay. Doneso here.
I find these posts to be .... overly simplistic. You do this because it's easier to frame your position. There are structural reasons a 50 state strategy would be considered. There are non structural reasons as well. Winning the popular vote but losing the election anyway and doing so 3 times in the last 30 years is kind of a problem.
Realistically, a three or four party system would be better suited for voters who require purity. It's just not realistically ever going to happen.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI find these posts to be …. overly simplistic. You do this because it's easier to frame your position. There are structural reasons a 50 state strategy would be considered. There are non structural reasons as well. Winning the popular vote but losing the election anyway and doing so 3 times in the last 30 years is kind of a problem.Unicorn chasers.
Realistically, a three or four party system would be better suited for voters who require purity. It's just not realistically ever going to happen.
In an ideal world we would have a left party who champions all the things we want. That America is as fictional as the one Paul Ryan inhibits.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI find these posts to be …. overly simplistic. You do this because it's easier to frame your position. There are structural reasons a 50 state strategy would be considered. There are non structural reasons as well. Winning the popular vote but losing the election anyway and doing so 3 times in the last 30 years is kind of a problem.That's overly simplistic when his response to "Ramm Emmanuel" is that no one likes him?
Realistically, a three or four party system would be better suited for voters who require purity. It's just not realistically ever going to happen.
And then defaulting for the 5th time to something something you expect the dems to be perfect? Don't do this guy favors and argue for him when he's never shown the ability to do it himself. He's spend the last day and a half arguing for about a moral high ground, good vs evil, us vs them, the future of the us being at stake - then has the nerve to say "until you prove me wrong". Let him keep fucking that chicken
You win and change views by fighting constantly and slowly getting the changes you need.
It sucks, because BLM and Women's rights shouldn't be "slow" but that's the cards we're dealt.
It sucks, because BLM and Women's rights shouldn't be "slow" but that's the cards we're dealt.
By DY_nasty Go To PostThat's overly simplistic when his response to "Ramm Emmanuel" is that no one likes him?And you can keep fucking that chicken were the GOP and Dems are the same.
And then defaulting for the 5th time to something something you expect the dems to be perfect? Don't do this guy favors and argue for him when he's never shown the ability to do it himself. He's spend the last day and a half arguing for about a moral high ground, good vs evil, us vs them, the future of the us being at stake - then has the nerve to say "until you prove me wrong". Let him keep fucking that chicken
Ramm isn't like in Illinois by most Dems, but much like Madigan there's nothing we can do about it short of marching to his office and killing him.
By TheHunter Go To PostAnd you can keep fucking that chicken were the GOP and Dems are the same.maybe not supporting a re-election for a guy plagued with corruption allegations?
Ramm isn't like in Illinois by most Dems, but much like Madigan there's nothing we can do about it short of marching to his office and killing him.
there's nothing we can do is a great argument. where have we seen that before
By TheHunter Go To PostUnicorn chasers.
In an ideal world we would have a left party who champions all the things we want. That America is as fictional as the one Paul Ryan inhibits.
Sure, but this kinda goes back to the semantics of the issue. You use the term "evil" to describe tacit support of racism, but democrats have done the same. We even saw this during the last election. Bernie focused his entire campaign on the white working class in the rust belt. Is he evil? Are those tactics evil? Those cross voters?
RAU and you are both being hyperbolic but from different perspectives IMO
By TheHunter Go To PostYou still see the democrats as supporting racism and bigotry? Tough on Crime was 20 years ago; a different age. The Democrats are a more liberal and progressive group now.
By blackace Go To Post
It was?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/analysis-black-leaders-supported-clinton-s-crime-bill-n552961
I mean even the war on drugs is viewed through such a massively different prism now when compared to the way it was viewed in the 80's and 90's
and trump's got a black guy in each of his speeches lol
this goes right back to using up and throwing away minorities to a point where its become a science
this goes right back to using up and throwing away minorities to a point where its become a science
We calling those black leaders coons now? Cause there is a world of a difference between the reasons why they signed the crime bill, versus these clowns riding for Trump currently.
By DY_nasty Go To Postthis goes right back to using up and throwing away minorities to a point where its become a science
Two things:
A. I want evolution from my party. I realize it's easier for me as a non minority to suggest that times are changing. I still want to see that evolution though.
B. It's more than fair to "ain't shit" the dems but, at least do so through some historical context and don't act like the Dems are on a 1:1 basis.
By Fenderputty Go To PostIt was?The results say it wasn't so different... people supported on the promise that it would help clean up the root of the problems not the stems of the effects of the problems..
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/analysis-black-leaders-supported-clinton-s-crime-bill-n552961
I mean even the war on drugs is viewed through such a massively different prism now when compared to the way it was viewed in the 80's and 90's
By EldritchTrapStar Go To PostWe calling those black leaders coons now? Cause there is a world of a difference between the reasons why they signed the crime bill, versus these clowns riding for Trump currently.You know I don't use coon lightly. But lets not act like we didn't see a bunch of HBCU leaders head up to capitol hill only to get played to their faces - and lets not act like anyone was surprised either.
By Fenderputty Go To PostTwo things:If you want to have hope and progress then how are you gonna do that without acknowledging the starting point without an initially slanted perspective?
A. I want evolution from my party. I realize it's easier for me as a non minority to suggest that times are changing. I still want to see that evolution though.
B. It's more than fair to "ain't shit" the dems but, at least do so through some historical context and don't act like the Dems are on a 1:1 basis.
Remember my gripe is "GOP Pedophiles" and "Republicans are evil" and then immediately running and hiding from the fact that your own party HAS done similar things and continues to. That moral high ground stuff is flimsy as hell, and when you run from it instinctively when pressed then what are you really?
Not how I didn't even get at him over BLM.
By blackace Go To PostThe results say it wasn't so different… people supported on the promise that it would help clean up the root of the problems not the stems of the effects of the problems..
Lots of people incorrectly assuming that "attacking a crime instead of the cause for the crime will result in less crime" is just common sentiment. That our populace views prison as a means for atonement instead of rehab is a problem. Most people are still for the death penalty as a deterrent for example. I bring up my anecdotal evidence here, but I learned about racism throughout history class. It wasn't until upper level human resources management in university that anyone ever mentioned systemic racism to me. Human Resources management. Not even a sociology course.
Tough on crime and punish drugs with all of our might was the political version of adding two and two to get four in the 90's.
Am I happy tough on crime existed? Nah, but I'm at least optimistic the party seems to understand their previous faults here.
By DY_nasty Go To Postmaybe not supporting a re-election for a guy plagued with corruption allegations?He is hotly contested, but as long as the voters vote him in all I can do is not support him and decry him.
there's nothing we can do is a great argument. where have we seen that before
Several local dems denounce him and try to primary him every election. If the Chicago voters don't vote him out we can't do anything. Same thing with madigan.
Always easy to call some shit pragmatic or necessary when you have no skin in what befell folks as a result of all this bullshit.
By DY_nasty Go To PostYou know I don't use coon lightly. But lets not act like we didn't see a bunch of HBCU leaders head up to capitol hill only to get played to their faces - and lets not act like anyone was surprised either.
If you want to have hope and progress then how are you gonna do that without acknowledging the starting point without an initially slanted perspective?
Remember my gripe is "GOP Pedophiles" and "Republicans are evil" and then immediately running and hiding from the fact that your own party HAS done similar things and continues to. That moral high ground stuff is flimsy as hell, and when you run from it instinctively when pressed then what are you really?
Not how I didn't even get at him over BLM.
Two things:
A. If you hand wave away any black support of a movement as "coons" then I can never use that support for my arguments. Or, that support has always comes from a disingenuous place. I don't think either of these statements are accurate.
B. I agree ... though I don't think you were addressing me directly here.
By DY_nasty Go To Postand trump's got a black guy in each of his speeches lolI don't want to do that.
this goes right back to using up and throwing away minorities to a point where its become a science
Don't you understand? I got involved in politics now because of the injustice I saw. Yet you shove me out of the way like I'm the GOP.
The Dems need to do more and I will hold their feet to the fire until they do; but comparing them to the GOP is disingenuous at best and unicorn chasing at worst.
By Fenderputty Go To PostLots of people incorrectly assuming that "attacking a crime instead of the cause for the crime will result in less crime" is just common sentiment. That our populace views prison as a means for atonement instead of rehab is a problem. Most people are still for the death penalty as a deterrent for example. I bring up my anecdotal evidence here, but I learned about racism throughout history class. It wasn't until upper level human resources management in university that anyone ever mentioned systemic racism to me. Human Resources management. Not even a sociology course..............................................................
Tough on crime and punish drugs with all of our might was the political version of adding two and two to get four in the 90's.
Am I happy tough on crime existed? Nah, but I'm at least optimistic the party seems to understand their previous faults here.
yeah. this is kind of a much bigger deal than you realize
By TheHunter Go To PostI don't want to do that.you just started paying attention but people are unicorn chasing?
Don't you understand? I got involved in politics now because of the injustice I saw. Yet you shove me out of the way like I'm the GOP.
The Dems need to do more and I will hold their feet to the fire until they do; but comparing them to the GOP is disingenuous at best and unicorn chasing at worst.
i wouldn't even be laughing this hard at you if you stopped trying to defend and dismiss every single thing that gets brought up.
Optimism doesn't put a microscope on why that wasn't challenged or why the people who are most loyal to the democrats consistently get tossed under the bus.
By DY_nasty Go To PostYou know I don't use coon lightly. But lets not act like we didn't see a bunch of HBCU leaders head up to capitol hill only to get played to their faces - and lets not act like anyone was surprised either.But I never claimed the Dems don't have issues; they do. I live in Illinois for god's sake.
If you want to have hope and progress then how are you gonna do that without acknowledging the starting point without an initially slanted perspective?
Remember my gripe is "GOP Pedophiles" and "Republicans are evil" and then immediately running and hiding from the fact that your own party HAS done similar things and continues to. That moral high ground stuff is flimsy as hell, and when you run from it instinctively when pressed then what are you really?
Not how I didn't even get at him over BLM.
We are not what the GOP has become. We're what the GOP should be; acknowledged the failures and learn from 60's and beyond and move forward to better tomorrows. The GOP is going backwards, to a morally evil point. Hence why I can claim the moral high ground; I don't and will not ever support those views.
Holding the dems hostage for past mistakes when they try to learn and fix those mistakes does no one but the "whataboutism" GOP any good.
By DY_nasty Go To PostYou know I don't use coon lightly. But lets not act like we didn't see a bunch of HBCU leaders head up to capitol hill only to get played to their faces - and lets not act like anyone was surprised either.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Those HBCU leaders live in a new age: one where information is available with an unlock of a phone. They had every warning possible, telling them that shit was a bad idea, and they did it anyway. They deserved to get played for thinking they were "one of the good ones". After the central park 5, they shouldn't have even entertained 45.
Those black leaders that signed the crime bill had to contend with the rise of gang violence and the aftermath of the crack boom, not school funding or whatever reason that group had for going up there and being Trump's photo-op. The situations aren't 1:1.
By DY_nasty Go To Post…………………………………………………….
yeah. this is kind of a much bigger deal than you realize
you just started paying attention but people are unicorn chasing?
i wouldn't even be laughing this hard at you if you stopped trying to defend and dismiss every single thing that gets brought up.
I started seeing the harsher truths. I've been following politics since 2001, although I was only 11 so it was filtered but I learned.
BLM and Trump showed me how bad racism still is; I'm an affluent white guy. I had no idea how bad it was, and maybe subconsciously I didn't want to know.
But I do now. And I won't stop fighting until I'm dead.
By DY_nasty Go To Post…………………………………………………….
yeah. this is kind of a much bigger deal than you realize
No I realize it's big. That's why you and I argue most of the time!
By TheHunter Go To PostThe Dems need to do more and I will hold their feet to the fire until they do; but comparing them to the GOP is disingenuous at best and unicorn chasing at worst.
I don't think he's saying this. Just that saying extreme things sort of puts you in a catch 22 if you're not careful with your introspective look.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostOptimism doesn't put a microscope on why that wasn't challenged or why the people who are most loyal to the democrats consistently get tossed under the bus.
I'm optimistic here because to come to the conclusion that tough on crime was a bad policy, one has to admit the most affected person here was the one most loyal to the party.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostOptimism doesn't put a microscope on why that wasn't challenged or why the people who are most loyal to the democrats consistently get tossed under the bus.They shouldn't be, and my hope is that is changing now.
It is in Illinois (Ramm not withstanding).
By TheHunter Go To PostBut I never claimed the Dems don't have issues; they do. I live in Illinois for god's sake.no one's holding them hostage ffs. they fuck up too - is talking about a fuck up the absolute worst thing that can happen? it can be in the world of hyperbole, absolutes, and blanket statements
We are not what the GOP has become. We're what the GOP should be; acknowledged the failures and learn from 60's and beyond and move forward to better tomorrows. The GOP is going backwards, to a morally evil point. Hence why I can claim the moral high ground; I don't and will not ever support those views.
Holding the dems hostage for past mistakes when they try to learn and fix those mistakes does no one but the "whataboutism" GOP any good.
"we are not what the gop has become" what has the left become? maybe figuring that out is a better way of determining where all those votes went instead of saying the GOP is the root of all evil
By Fenderputty Go To PostI'm optimistic here because to come to the conclusion that tough on crime was a bad policy, one has to admit the most affected person here was the one most loyal to the party.
It was a terrible mistakes, much as the war on drugs was. It came from the "noble" idea that if we clean up the streets goodwill and peace will follow when all it did was make a bad situation worse for AA's and even though crime did go down; it most likely caused far more harm to AA's then was worth if we had instead invested in communities.
By DY_nasty Go To Postno one's holding them hostage ffs. they fuck up too - is talking about a fuck up the absolute worst thing that can happen? it can be in the world of hyperbole, absolutes, and blanket statements
"we are not what the gop has become" what has the left become? maybe figuring that out is a better way of determining where all those votes went instead of saying the GOP is the root of all evil
Something more inclusive, progressive and left is my hope.
We will see in 2018 and 2020 what the Dems learned from this. At the very least stop chasing white voters down; they showed themselves for what they are.
I mean ... I'm for the complete legalization of all drugs with every dollar currently spent on fighting drug related crime to go to rehabilitation and addiction centers efforts instead. Not only could you spend the money we currently spend on addiction, but the money you raise via taxation could go to healthcare efforts to combat use or the negatives of use there as well.
For those I've been alive for, I will always say Reagan is the worst. Policy wise we will feel his economic and social programs a lot longer than anything Bush or Trump is doing.
For those I've been alive for, I will always say Reagan is the worst. Policy wise we will feel his economic and social programs a lot longer than anything Bush or Trump is doing.
By Fenderputty Go To PostI mean … I'm for the complete legalization of all drugs with every dollar currently spent on fighting drug related crime to go to rehabilitation and addiction centers efforts instead. Not only could you spend the money we currently spend on addiction, but the money you raise via taxation could go to healthcare efforts to combat use or the negatives of use there as well.
For those I've been alive for, I will always say Reagan is the worst. Policy wise we will feel his economic and social programs a lot longer than anything Bush or Trump is doing.
I'd hold my tongue on that one.
By TheHunter Go To PostSomething more inclusive, progressive and left is my hope.they didn't learn anything if oprah, zuckerburg, and kamala harris are their biggest names at this point when it comes to replacing a WOAT president lol
We will see in 2018 and 2020 what the Dems learned from this. At the very least stop chasing white voters down; they showed themselves for what they are.
and it was never about being 'inclusive', because it doesn't matter how nice you are to a black person if you keep them poor and begging. meanwhile the dems have been trending right so long that some of the last big dividing factors is how complacent you are to the race topic in general and how far you're willing to stretch what middle class means.
By TheHunter Go To PostI'd hold my tongue on that one.
I mean we're only one year in, but his taxation is the worst policy driven thing he's done and it's the direct results of our acceptance of Reaganomics lol.
By DY_nasty Go To Postthey didn't learn anything if oprah, zuckerburg, and kamala harris are their biggest names at this point when it comes to replacing a WOAT president lol
Yo .... one of these things are not like the other breh. Harris has a history as a DA, but not a long enough one as a politician that she's gonna hang herself. She came out in support of Bernie's trash single payer bill for example and is also now pro pot.
By DY_nasty Go To Postthey didn't learn anything if oprah, zuckerburg, and kamala harris are their biggest names at this point when it comes to replacing a WOAT president lol
and it was never about being 'inclusive', because it doesn't matter how nice you are to a black person if you keep them poor and begging. meanwhile the dems have been trending right so long that some of the last big dividing factors is how complacent you are to the race topic in general and how far you're willing to stretch what middle class means.
Those two are being pushed on the dems by the media. Harris is a suggestion however and she has a lot to answer for if she wants the nom.
I guess my next question is who would you think they should nominate?
By Fenderputty Go To PostI mean we're only one year in, but his taxation is the worst policy driven thing he's done and it's the direct results of our acceptance of Reaganomics lol.Harris has some stuff to answer for. Not nearly as much as some say but she's not squeaky clean.
Yo …. one of these things are not like the other breh. Harris has a history as a DA, but not a long enough one as a politician that she's gonna hang herself. She came out in support of Bernie's trash single payer bill for example and is also now pro pot.
By TheHunter Go To Postshe's not squeaky clean.
Nobody is mang
By Fenderputty Go To PostNobody is mangHow dare you insinuate that Mark Zuckerberg is anything but an angel.