By DY_nasty Go To Postactual governance just completely failed in order to make a cheap point. the government literally shutdown because we want to rewrite the rules of obstruction
if you're going to change the rules of the game, at least do it for something worthwhile. something that you're not initially complicit in.
"we want to save kids" and "we want to protect illegal immigrants"
we could've done a much better job of protecting both in the last 8 years instead of compromising to the center
Correct ... The GOP failed at actual governance to try and make a cheap point by taking CHIP and DACA hostage. How you jump from there to Dems rewriting the rules is beyond me.
Where you're 100% incorrect is your comment regarding the "last 8 years". DACA was slated to be voted on in 2010 but was filibustered by Republicans. The Executive order is a result of that. The gang of 8 immigration bill was in 2013 and it was killed because the house refused to hold a vote under GOP leadership. Both of these were bipartisan.
By reilo Go To Post??? you're losing me on that one, DY.Don't set the bar low through the belief of 'compromise' when you know its going to get jumped anyways - then act clueless when people say you don't support them lol
What could've been done to protect these policies from not being subject to these budget procedures, where they can be stripped every year? Literally anything under the federal budget can be dropped if enough votes are there, including shit like Social Security.
Things can absolutely get stripped every year and they do. That applies to everything. At the same time, short arming those points initially only makes it easier to unravel and manipulate in the long haul. My issue is the shutting down the government for a hot weekend just to flounder about on things you were never that committed to in the first place in order to prop yourself up for a bit is bullshit.
Either do it, and prove you're serious or don't and stick to the 2018 "this will be different!" plan.
I'm talking about moves they could have made before and didn't. And how they've operated as fairly conservative, racist and sexist in multiple administrations now as well as their own legislation on the floor. No one wants to own it. It's compromise. They had no choice. Whatever. Mass deportations were happening plenty under Obama, he did more than Bush. We won't talk about it though. Nor his admin railroading more whistleblowers. Nor the democrats sitting on their ass every time they could have shored up Roe v Wade. Not politically viable. "tough on crime" Oh that's different. Basically letting Ronald Reagan set the agenda even today. I just don't have the patience anymore to explain how and why the dems fail to actually be a leftist party. Fail us. And get let off the hook.
By Fenderputty Go To PostCorrect … The GOP failed at actual governance to try and make a cheap point by taking CHIP and DACA hostage. How you jump from there to Dems rewriting the rules is beyond me.because they're the ones that were able to force a shutdown and they did for a weekend and it was cute.
Where you're 100% incorrect is your comment regarding the "last 8 years". DACA was slated to be voted on in 2010 but was filibustered by Republicans. The Executive order is a result of that. The gang of 8 immigration bill was in 2013 was killed because the house refused to hold a vote under GOP leadership. Both of these were bipartisan.
Making DACA the central point of immigration policy is a joke. Now if we're going to shutdown the government over all of that, then sure. But we're not. This goes back waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay further than just two terms.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostI'm talking about moves they could have made before and didn't.What moves?
By Random Ass Username Go To PostAnd how they've operated as fairly conservative, racist and sexist in multiple administrations now as well as their own legislation on the floor. No one wants to own it. It's compromise. They had no choice. Whatever. Mass deportations were happening plenty under Obama, he did more than Bush. We won't talk about it though. Nor his admin railroading more whistleblowers.This is true.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostNor the democrats sitting on their ass every time they could have shored up Roe v Wade. Not politically viable.Shored up what? A decision that already went to the Supreme Court? If you're talking about just general abortion protection, then yes. But I don't see how Roe v Wade plays into this.
By Random Ass Username Go To Post"tough on crime" Oh that's different. Basically letting Ronald Reagan set the agenda even today. I just don't have the patience anymore to explain how and why the dems fail to actually be a leftist party. Fail us. And get let off the hook.How are they getting let off the hook when they can't even win elections?
By DY_nasty Go To PostAgain, we've run this immigration mill for long, long time so framing this entire thing around just DACA, now of all times, is straight up hypocritical.Well right, Dems want path to citizenship for up to 4 million undocumented immigrants. DACA grants protection for 700K of the most vulnerable and sympathetic.
Republicans not named Flake or Graham want ALL of them gone. Yeah it's partially disingenuous to couch all of this under DACA, but it's not like DACA is actually off the table.
Democrats overwhelmingly passed Welfare Reform but what do I know. And those same Dems in congress. Different times is what I'm sure I'll hear as a retort to this.
By reilo Go To PostShored up what? A decision that already went to the Supreme Court? If you're talking about just general abortion protection, then yes. But I don't see how Roe v Wade plays into this.Why do you think attacking funding to women's clinics and PP is a viable strat?
By DY_nasty Go To PostDon't set the bar low through the belief of 'compromise' when you know its going to get jumped anyways - then act clueless when people say you don't support them lolCHIP has been around for decades (thanks Hillary!) and the policy hasn't changed much since 1996. So unless I am missing some minutiae, I don't see what more shoring up it needs.
Things can absolutely get stripped every year and they do. That applies to everything. At the same time, short arming those points initially only makes it easier to unravel and manipulate in the long haul. My issue is the shutting down the government for a hot weekend just to flounder about on things you were never that committed to in the first place in order to prop yourself up for a bit is bullshit.
Either do it, and prove you're serious or don't and stick to the 2018 "this will be different!" plan.
DACA though... as stated before, that came to be after DREAM act has been around since 2001 and hasn't been passed, like ever.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostWhy do you think attacking funding to women's clinics and PP is a viable strat?Because Republicans are assholes? I'm still lost on what legislation can be passed that would make funding those types of clinics permanent and not be part of a yearly budget process.
"Pass something to protected women clinics!" isn't really a strategy. Pass what to do what? As long as tax money is used to fund those things, they'll be subject to yearly approval.
By Random Ass Username Go To PostI'm talking about moves they could have made before and didn't. And how they've operated as fairly conservative, racist and sexist in multiple administrations now as well as their own legislation on the floor. No one wants to own it. It's compromise. They had no choice. Whatever. Mass deportations were happening plenty under Obama, he did more than Bush. We won't talk about it though. Nor his admin railroading more whistleblowers. Nor the democrats sitting on their ass every time they could have shored up Roe v Wade. Not politically viable. "tough on crime" Oh that's different. Basically letting Ronald Reagan set the agenda even today. I just don't have the patience anymore to explain how and why the dems fail to actually be a leftist party. Fail us. And get let off the hook.Short term memories and framed victories like a motherfucker lol
we shutdown the government to look cool for anyone who never paid attention in the first place
and i'm honestly okay with that... IF they would stick to their guns and not do something this big for a weekend over stuff they were already associated with. I mean people think we're all about dreamers when the same guys that we call the devil in ICE clearly weren't trained and given their run in the last 12 months alone. Cool, play the game. But don't shutdown the whole government over it unless you're really about to do something worth mentioning in the long term - and not just play over bits and pieces of an issue you'd spin in the first place.
By reilo Go To PostBecause Republicans are assholes? I'm still lost on what legislation can be passed that would make funding those types of clinics permanent and not be part of a yearly budget process.It's not just republicans that are assholes.
"Pass something to protected women clinics!" isn't really a strategy. Pass what to do what? As long as tax money is used to fund those things, they'll be subject to yearly approval.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment
What can the fed do though? Plenty.
By DY_nasty Go To Postbecause they're the ones that were able to force a shutdown and they did for a weekend and it was cute.
Making DACA the central point of immigration policy is a joke. Now if we're going to shutdown the government over all of that, then sure. But we're not. This goes back waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay further than just two terms.
Firstly ... they didn't force shit. The GOP had (4) of their own senators vote to keep debate open. It wasn't until today that the GOP had the 51 votes needed.. Even today's vote saw (2) GOP senators try and stop the short spending bill. You could argue that those (2) votes are just toss away political votes, but even then you're still admitting dems didn't have control over the shutdown until today.
Secondly ... they "forced" a shutdown because the GOP broke the government. Why you're not more angry at this is beyond me. They're trying to hold these programs hostage so Dems will either pass their garbage nationalist wall shit or they can pas more short stop gaps to avoid any issues that could arise in 2018. But lets shit on dems and make the GOP's efforts easier lol
DACA has been an issue since 2010. It's not the center point. It is the one issue democrats have public support over though, and it is the one issue the GOP scrapped for political reasons.
You're also ignoring that the WH has said an actual bipartisan bill on immigration is DOA
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/politics/dreamers-bill-immigration-graham-durbin-congress/index.html
(That's the second time it's been presented)
By Random Ass Username Go To PostIt's not just republicans that are assholes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment
What can the fed do though? Plenty.
The 2016 platform marked the first time the Democratic platform had an explicit call to repeal the Hyde Amendment.?
By HasphatsAnts Go To PostWell right, Dems want path to citizenship for up to 4 million undocumented immigrants. DACA grants protection for 700K of the most vulnerable and sympathetic.DACA as a focus for any of this is a joke though. You know it is if you're anywhere near immigration policies. There's no point to cling to it as a significant piece of legislation unless you're just that desperate for the remnants of Obama's Hopium.
Republicans not named Flake or Graham want ALL of them gone. Yeah it's partially disingenuous to couch all of this under DACA, but it's not like DACA is actually off the table.
Its right up there with saying our outreach to Cuba was a gamechanger. You should actually be in agreement that with this type of power, they should've either asked for more or let the right sit with egg on its face for being the symbol of broken homes for a whole generation with another fast growing minority.
By reilo Go To PostCHIP has been around for decades (thanks Hillary!) and the policy hasn't changed much since 1996. So unless I am missing some minutiae, I don't see what more shoring up it needs.I also think in that last post you're kinda giving too much credit to the American people as a whole. Most people don't remember what laws/policies were passed and the few that do also don't remember the context of when it occurred.
DACA though… as stated before, that came to be after DREAM act has been around since 2001 and hasn't been passed, like ever.
In that light, some things do become permanent. Good and bad. And its for those reasons you shouldn't get a pass for not fighting as hard as you should've for certain things because of convenient compromise "because of the times".
Regarding DREAM... I really don't think people care that much about illegal immigrants and I've said as much repeatedly. It doesn't take much to google image search a deportation checkpoint before returning across the border or see the numbers and how they've been trending over the past 10-20 years.
It sounds nice, but DACA by itself being the win is like saying that body cameras on police stops black kids from getting shot in the back.
By reilo Go To Post?
lol
By Fenderputty Go To PostFirstly … they didn't force shit. The GOP had (4) of their own senators vote to keep debate open. It wasn't until today that the GOP had the 51 votes needed.. Even today's vote saw (2) GOP senators try and stop the short spending bill. You could argue that those (2) votes are just toss away political votes, but even then you're still admitting dems didn't have control over the shutdown until today.If they had control, then they had control. If you can hold out, then why not do it for more? You've said as much as yourself.
Secondly … they "forced" a shutdown because the GOP broke the government. Why you're not more angry at this is beyond me. They're trying to hold these programs hostage so Dems will either pass their garbage nationalist wall shit or they can pas more short stop gaps to avoid any issues that could arise in 2018. But lets shit on dems and make the GOP's efforts easier lol
DACA has been an issue since 2010. It's not the center point. It is the one issue democrats have public support over though, and it is the one issue the GOP scrapped for political reasons.
You're also ignoring that the WH has said an actual bipartisan bill on immigration is DOA
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/politics/dreamers-bill-immigration-graham-durbin-congress/index.html
(That's the second time it's been presented)
I don't get why you're just impressed with this like 1) it won't be used against the dems again 2) its a big win. Saying the GOP broke the government has nothing to do with jumping into it and pushing it along. That's a mutual failure no matter how you cut it. And there's nothing good about that outcome. You keep it running. That's ...your job. Whether you like it or not, you get in there and make it work. Or, if that's absolutely serious, then you don't.
Who goes on strike for a weekend? Boycotts long enough to watch a few playoff games? That's a joke. It just is.
And that article is from last week - how many times I gotta repeat myself about immigration issues not being something that just popped up this year? lol DACA isn't the lifeblood of that reform going forward and it never was. I'm not sure who pushed that narrative but damn they're good.
By reilo Go To Post?dems run on a lot of shit
bail reform was awesome too
By DY_nasty Go To PostIf they had control, then they had control. If you can hold out, then why not do it for more? You've said as much as yourself.
I don't get why you're just impressed with this like 1) it won't be used against the dems again 2) its a big win. Saying the GOP broke the government has nothing to do with jumping into it and pushing it along. That's a mutual failure no matter how you cut it. And there's nothing good about that outcome. You keep it running. That's …your job. Whether you like it or not, you get in there and make it work. Or, if that's absolutely serious, then you don't.
Who goes on strike for a weekend? Boycotts long enough to watch a few playoff games? That's a joke. It just is.
And that article is from last week - how many times I gotta repeat myself about immigration issues not being something that just popped up this year? lol DACA isn't the lifeblood of that reform going forward and it never was. I'm not sure who pushed that narrative but damn they're good.
dems run on a lot of shit
bail reform was awesome too
A. I did say I wished that had held out for a couple more days to see if DACA would eventually get added, but that I would wait the several weeks and be happy with CHIP in the meantime. You're not giving them those two weeks
B. I'm not that impressed. I'll take what I can get. We have no actual power and small amount of leverage.
C. I'm not suggesting a shutdown was "pushing it along". Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting shutting the government down is the punishment the GOP gets for not actually wanting to govern.
D. I'm not ignoring the past. That's why I brought up the Senate Filibustering DACA in 2010 legislatively, and brought up the gang of 8 bill in 2013. I am bringing up the current bill to Illustrate just how much the GOP is breaking government. They have a bipartisan bill not tied to spending in it's DOA!!!!!!
Like fuck man ... The GOP killed McCaskill's bill to keep military paychecks going over a shutdown because they want any shutdown to stings dems as bad or worse.
And I just said the last time "we got paid" was horseshit anyways lol. I was working for free at the national cemetery last time we shutdown because our group decided it was worth doing out of pocket. Direct "are you alive? y/n" pay is a drop in the bucket of our massive military budget so I wonder why everyone is so up in arms over that small fact. Like nearly every facilitating element isn't contracted out. If you're TDY overseas, you're out of your hotel. If you're on a base in sandbox, you're eating MREs. If you're traveling between stations, trying to move your family, you can't - and you're also delayed any reimbursement for that move as well. Etc. Its a long, long list and once you start taking days you have to add them somewhere else. When it comes to security and maintenance, that's not a game you should be playing lightly.
Its kinda funny though.... I really give no fucks about McCaskill. There's no way to effectively minimize the effects to any of this when you're involved or see the entire scope of it without the media's tint or a political spin attached to it. Its another meaningless gesture that only exists to portray an image. It doesn't bother me specifically, I'm more bothered by the people who eat it up and use it defend other things.
But - I'd be okay with it all if it meant something.
its all about protecting daca. shutdown everything. we'll get to you later, puerto rico. just hang tight.
Its kinda funny though.... I really give no fucks about McCaskill. There's no way to effectively minimize the effects to any of this when you're involved or see the entire scope of it without the media's tint or a political spin attached to it. Its another meaningless gesture that only exists to portray an image. It doesn't bother me specifically, I'm more bothered by the people who eat it up and use it defend other things.
But - I'd be okay with it all if it meant something.
By KingGondo Go To Postbut instead this lolz
its all about protecting daca. shutdown everything. we'll get to you later, puerto rico. just hang tight.
By KingGondo Go To Post
They may shut it down again. At least that time they could say "you promised" instead of trying to message "It's your fault we're here in the first place"
I know there was some polling that suggested shutting down the government for DACA alone wasn't good for dems ...
"You promised" is the first thing Bernie roasted Hillary with. Be careful giving Gondo that energy 👀
By Randolph Freelander Go To Post
By the way ... I totally forgot to comment on this earlier. This is fantastic news. The GOP is appealing to the SCOTUS, but they think the SCOTUS won't do shit because this is a state law issue. This would make 2018 even more reachable.
And that's my problem. Literally everyone knows that this racist as fuck administration doesn't give a shit about the "other". PR just got lights on yesterday, and it's part of the U.S... The GOP just bodied healthcare and fucked over everyone aside from the 1%. They are content with burning the U.S. to the ground and collecting insurance. We've got white supremacist in office. You think a minority is going to care about turtle going back on his word? We already know he ain't shit, tf.
I hope this works out in the end, m8. I really do.
I hope this works out in the end, m8. I really do.
https://washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/01/22/trump-imposes-tariffs-on-solar-panels-and-washing-machines-in-first-major-trade-action/
Because Fuck renewables right?
President Trump took action in two pending trade disputes Monday, imposing tariffs on imported solar panels and washing machines.
....
The Suniva-SolarWorld request for protection was opposed by much of the domestic U.S. solar industry. Tariffs that make solar panels more expensive, and thus discourage their use, will cause 23,000 installers, engineers and project managers to lose their jobs this year as billions of dollars in planned investment evaporates, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association. Up to one third of the 260,000 Americans currently employed in the industry are at risk because of the tariffs, the group says.
Because Fuck renewables right?
By Fenderputty Go To Post
Interesting catch 22 IMO
You make your own reality..... lol
By Fenderputty Go To Posthttps://washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/01/22/trump-imposes-tariffs-on-solar-panels-and-washing-machines-in-first-major-trade-action/
Because Fuck renewables right?
He's a piece of shit..... its going to take decades to really figure out how much of a mess they made and how many opportunities were loss. because Trump wanted to try and save a few 1000 jobs in West Virginia of all places
By Random Ass Username Go To PostHe ain't even savin' them either.
You see......
By KingGondo Go To PostHe doesn’t care about jobs in West Virginia.
That's the joke
This is amazing lol
"Specifically, her letter advised she has deeply held religious beliefs that a nonviable fetus is not a separate human being but is part of her body and that abortion of a nonviable fetus does not terminate the life of a separate, unique, living human being."
Jex Blackmore, a spokeswoman for the Satanic Temple, said the woman's religious rights were ignored.
“The State has essentially established a religious indoctrination program intended to push a single ideological viewpoint,” Blackmore said in a statement. “The law is intended to punish women who disagree with this opinion.”
By Fenderputty Go To PostThis is amazing lol
This is the problem inherent to 'religious exemptions' in law. You eventually have to admit that "what we really meant is just Christians, ok?"
In bigger news, Mueller interviewed Sessions last Wednesday. We're only just finding out about it now.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/23/politics/jeff-sessions-robert-mueller-interview/index.html
They talked to him for multiple hours about his meetings with Kislyak and the situation surrounding Comey's firing.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/23/politics/jeff-sessions-robert-mueller-interview/index.html
They talked to him for multiple hours about his meetings with Kislyak and the situation surrounding Comey's firing.
By Smokey Go To PostStormy Daniels taking over CNN
I've joked several times about this, but can you imagine how much her internet searches have climbed in the last month? I aint gonna lie. I looked at Stormy naked again for the first time in a decade lol
There's a thing going around that Stormy resembled Trump's daughter at one time... and that's why Trump had a relationship with her.
Please tell me that's not true because there isn't enough EWWWWWWWWWWWW
Please tell me that's not true because there isn't enough EWWWWWWWWWWWW
By The Frankman Go To PostThere's a thing going around that Stormy resembled Trump's daughter at one time… and that's why Trump had a relationship with her.it's def true and it's definitely fucking disgusting.
Please tell me that's not true because there isn't enough EWWWWWWWWWWWW
By FlutterPuffs Go To Post
Thanks for sharing mate.